Ted Cruz Talks To Tucker Carlson

The things I do on behalf of this newsletter!

I didn’t write on Wednesday. Maybe I was still recovering from Annual Conference. Bur really, I couldn’t think of anything significant to address. But that night I started seeing that Ted Cruz had been on Tucker Carlson’s show. So today I have lots to say.

My plan for today is to try to make sense of the clips I saw on BlueSky where Ted Cruz is explaining why, as a Christian, he must support Israel. Because I wanted to get the context right instead of trusting a single video clip, I listened to all TWO HOURS of their conversation.

Here’s the exchange:

Cruz: Growing up in Sunday School I was taught from the Bible that “those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed”. And from my perspective, I want to be on the blessing side of things.

Carlson: Those who bless the government of Israel?

Cruz: “Those who bless Israel” is what it says. It doesn’t say “the government of” it says “the Nation of Israel”. So that’s in the Bible. As a Christian, I believe that.

Carlson: Where is that?

Cruz: I can find it [for] you. I don’t have the scripture off the tip of my …You pull out the phone and use Google.

Carlson: It’s in Genesis. Chapter 16 or something like that. So you’re quoting a Bible phrase you don’t have context for and you don’t know where in the Bible it is. But that’s like, your theology? I’m confused. What does that even mean?

Cruz: Tucker —

Carlson: I’m a Christian. I want to know what you’re talking about.

Cruz: Where does my support for Israel come from? Number one, because we’re biblically commanded to support Israel. But number two…

Carlson: Hold on

Cruz: I’m not holding on.

Carson: Hold on. You’re a Senator and now you’re throwing out theology. And I am a Christian and I am allowed to weigh in on this. We are commanded as Christians to support the government of Israel?

Cruz: We are commanded to support Israel.

Carlson: What does that mean, Israel?

Cruz: We’re told those who bless Israel will be blessed.

Carlson: Hold on. Define Israel. This is important. Are you kidding? This is a majority Christian country.

Cruz: Define Israel? Do you not know what Israel is? That would be the country you’ve asked like 49 questions about.

Carlson: So that’s what Genesis, that’s what God is talking about?

Cruz: The nation of Israel, yes.

Carlson: So is that the current borders, the current leadership? He’s talking about the political entity called “Israel”?

Cruz: He’s talking about the nation of Israel. Yeah, nations exist. And He’s discussing a nation. And the nation was the people of Israel.

Carlson: Is the nation God is referring to in Genesis, is that the same as the country run by Benjamin Netanyahu right now?

Cruz: Yes.

{A few seconds later in the longer video}

Carlson: I’m talking about the political entity of modern Israel. And you believe that’s what God was talking about in Genesis.

Cruz: I do.

Carlson: And that country has existed since when?

Cruz: For thousands of years. Now there was a time when it didn’t exist and then it was recreated just over 70 years ago.

Carlson: I think most people understand that line in Genesis to refer to the Jewish people, God’s chosen people.

Cruz: That’s not what it says.

I found this exchange so illuminating because Carlson wouldn’t simply take a proof text as an answer. He wanted to know how Cruz’s view of this verse informed his policy positions toward the current nation of Israel. Ted basically says, “God said it. I believe it. That’s good enough for me.”

It’s worth pointing out that Cruz’s scripture passage doesn’t come from Genesis as Carlson suggested. It comes from Numbers 24:9. Cruz is quoting the scripture correctly, but missing the context. This is a prophecy Balaam gives to the king of Moab. It’s right after Balaam’s donkey spoke to him.

The context is unimportant to proof-texters like Cruz. He has his slogan and that’s good enough for him. I hate to admit it, but Carlson is right: this isn’t a theology.

Carlson suggested that the verse came from Genesis and there is something similar in 12: 2-3. “I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed by you.”

The problem here is that this is a promise made to Abraham about his descendents. That includes the entire Arab world as well as the Jewish world. I’m not sure how Ted Cruz aligns his foreign policy with that reality.

This is how proof-texting leads so many astray. No consideration of the context is which the phrase arises, not thought of the implications of that verse. And certainly not factoring in what was happening in the story of God’s people when that passage emerges.

As I’ve argued repeatedly, we suffer from a terrible lack of theological understanding. And, as Cruz demonstrates, that has serious real-world consequences.

---

I listened to the entire two-hour interview¹ and have come out safely on the other side. It was interesting to see two podcasters (one of whom has a part-time job as a Senator) battle to maintain control over their preferred narrative. There were lots of ad hominem attacks, overgeneralization, failure to address the other’s points, offense taken easily, and reconstructed history. And, of course, Carlson’s smirk and weird little laugh.

I hate to say it, but Carlson is a tough interviewer. Yes, he interrupts constantly to pick at something Cruz just said, but he really manages to expose the logical flaws in the argument made. To take one example, Cruz was trying to point out how Iran hates America and says that the Iranians want to assassinate President Donald Trump. Carlson wants details on how Cruz knows this and what stage such plans have reached. He goes on to point out that if this were true, then Cruz should favor all-out offensive action against the country trying to kill the president. Cruz quickly shifts the conversation to plots against John Bolton and Mike Pompeo.

Carlson has taken an anti-interventionist position. He wants us to spend our foreign military funds on cleaning up America’s cities (which he says don’t compare to the pristine cities like Moscow). He was once in favor of the Iraq war but no longer does given the long-term pain caused. He asks what happens after the Iranian regime is toppled and suggests something far worse may lie in its wake.

It wasn’t all contentious. They both love Reagan. They both campaigned for Trump. They love America (First). Their agreements were not as illuminating as their disagreements, and even the agreements involved serious hagiography.

One final note from my two-hour slog. I got a kick out of Carlson’s commercials. One was for crypto. One was for the kind of guns that the police are using against protestors, that shoot rubber bullets or tear gas canisters. One was for a wireless company that, if you buy today, will send you a real made-in-the-USA American flag (not like those Chinese American flags!). The last one I heard was for free summer courses on the constitution offered online by Hillsdale College. Even the commercials highlight Tucker Carlson’s personal worldview.

1. Thankfully, I was mowing the lawn and doing laundry. I only suffered through the last 45 minutes of actually watching.